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<blockquote data-quote="Mr. Ed" data-source="post: 12085" data-attributes="member: 118">It's official, I'm the 40 year old virgin. No relationships, no sex, and a fair amount of dancing.I'll start with the TL<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />RI just turned 40 and have barely dated.&nbsp; I've never had a girlfriend, relationship or even sex.&nbsp; I've had a couple female friends over time.&nbsp; I seem to find a new friend every couple of years but otherwise by myself.&nbsp; That &quot;Dont chase women&quot; or &quot;Let women come to you&quot; advice is BS for me.&nbsp; I HAVE to because they dont come to me!DetailsIn my teens and 20s I remember wondering how to get a girlfriend.&nbsp; It was upsetting to me that other guys (even &quot;normal&quot; guys who were not particularly good with women) were having success and I was not.&nbsp; I was upset that I'd never even danced with a girl, no prom, sadie hawkens, nothing.&nbsp; In hindsight in high school there was one girl I could have asked to prom but that was unthinkable!So I learned to dance.&nbsp; New York Salsa, then Ballroom (Waltz, Foxtrot, Rumba.. etc), then Tango.&nbsp; I spent years in lessons and social dancing.&nbsp; I never got to the top of the heap of the social scene.&nbsp; Now, I can go have a good time at pretty much any venue but I have to be active in asking people to dance.&nbsp; At the higher levels that's not always the case.&nbsp; A high level lead (which admittedly is just as many parts social to parts dance) is sought after, just like the high level follows.&nbsp; The problem is you ask a lady to dance, you dance, you say thanks and move on.&nbsp; I do not know how to build these relationships.I also tried some pick-up.&nbsp; RSD, Mystery Method.&nbsp; That stuff is nasty and manipulative.&nbsp; However it taught me the why behind why I was not succeeding in dating and even in the dance community.&nbsp; I'm not good at playfulness/wit/banter or at &quot;offering value&quot;.&nbsp; I don’t have witty lines to break though a girls shields to get to deeper conversation.&nbsp; If we can keep a conversation logical or slightly emotional OR if she likes to talk.&nbsp; I do just fine!!That bit on offering value and being an engaging socialite becomes more important for me because I'm height challenged at 5'3 and also a bit socially challenged (or offering value challenged) as we discussed.&nbsp; I have more work to do, especially initially, as a short shy man than a tall shy man, or even a tall extroverted man.Offering value is important in convo and in dance. Awhile back I went to lunch with some friends/co-workers and we got started talking about relationships.&nbsp; People were talking about their significant others.&nbsp; Eventually it became my turn and I was very honest and said I had little experience with all this.&nbsp; Eventually one of the guys who has been to my dance shows said &quot;even with all that dance experience you have, no way!&quot;&nbsp; So I started making stuff up from various relationship books I've read and sessions with therapists.I've had sessions with therapists/relationship coaches about this.&nbsp; They say I do just find and having the type of conversation you'd find in an LTR.&nbsp; I'd just fine IRL.&nbsp; However they are in business of teaching people to deepen a relationship, not get into one!That &quot;Dont chase women&quot; or &quot;Let women come to you&quot; advice is BS for me.&nbsp; I HAVE to because they dont come to me!&nbsp; There is a difference between &quot;let women come to you&quot; and &quot;I dot not know how to engage you/flirt with you.&quot;&nbsp; How do chase them better?&nbsp; Where is the line between creep and sexy? This sucks.&nbsp; Thoughts/Advice?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mr. Ed, post: 12085, member: 118"] It's official, I'm the 40 year old virgin. No relationships, no sex, and a fair amount of dancing. I'll start with the TL:DR I just turned 40 and have barely dated. I've never had a girlfriend, relationship or even sex. I've had a couple female friends over time. I seem to find a new friend every couple of years but otherwise by myself. That "Dont chase women" or "Let women come to you" advice is BS for me. I HAVE to because they dont come to me! Details In my teens and 20s I remember wondering how to get a girlfriend. It was upsetting to me that other guys (even "normal" guys who were not particularly good with women) were having success and I was not. I was upset that I'd never even danced with a girl, no prom, sadie hawkens, nothing. In hindsight in high school there was one girl I could have asked to prom but that was unthinkable! So I learned to dance. New York Salsa, then Ballroom (Waltz, Foxtrot, Rumba.. etc), then Tango. I spent years in lessons and social dancing. I never got to the top of the heap of the social scene. Now, I can go have a good time at pretty much any venue but I have to be active in asking people to dance. At the higher levels that's not always the case. A high level lead (which admittedly is just as many parts social to parts dance) is sought after, just like the high level follows. The problem is you ask a lady to dance, you dance, you say thanks and move on. I do not know how to build these relationships. I also tried some pick-up. RSD, Mystery Method. That stuff is nasty and manipulative. However it taught me the why behind why I was not succeeding in dating and even in the dance community. I'm not good at playfulness/wit/banter or at "offering value". I don’t have witty lines to break though a girls shields to get to deeper conversation. If we can keep a conversation logical or slightly emotional OR if she likes to talk. I do just fine!! That bit on offering value and being an engaging socialite becomes more important for me because I'm height challenged at 5'3 and also a bit socially challenged (or offering value challenged) as we discussed. I have more work to do, especially initially, as a short shy man than a tall shy man, or even a tall extroverted man. Offering value is important in convo and in dance. Awhile back I went to lunch with some friends/co-workers and we got started talking about relationships. People were talking about their significant others. Eventually it became my turn and I was very honest and said I had little experience with all this. Eventually one of the guys who has been to my dance shows said "even with all that dance experience you have, no way!" So I started making stuff up from various relationship books I've read and sessions with therapists. I've had sessions with therapists/relationship coaches about this. They say I do just find and having the type of conversation you'd find in an LTR. I'd just fine IRL. However they are in business of teaching people to deepen a relationship, not get into one! That "Dont chase women" or "Let women come to you" advice is BS for me. I HAVE to because they dont come to me! There is a difference between "let women come to you" and "I dot not know how to engage you/flirt with you." How do chase them better? Where is the line between creep and sexy? This sucks. Thoughts/Advice? [/QUOTE]

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