Discussion Apple Pectin and Milk Thistle, good supplements?

What's their usage for?

Milk thistle phenol compounds can block thyroid hormone uptake.


Thyroid hormones (THs) are charged and iodinated amino acid derivatives that need to pass the cell membrane facilitated by thyroid hormone transmembrane transporters (THTT) to exert their biological function. The importance of functional THTT is affirmed by the devastating effects of mutations in the human monocarboxylate transporter (MCT) 8, leading to a severe form of psychomotor retardation. Modulation of THTT function by pharmacological or environmental compounds might disturb TH action on a tissue-specific level. Therefore, it is important to identify compounds with relevant environmental exposure and THTT-modulating activity. Based on a nonradioactive TH uptake assay, we performed a screening of 13 chemicals, suspicious for TH receptor interaction, to test their potential effects on THTT in MCT8-overexpressing MDCK1-cells. We identified silymarin, an extract of the milk thistle, to be a potent inhibitor of T3 uptake by MCT8. Because silymarin is a complex mixture of flavonolignan substances, we further tested its individual components and identified silychristin as the most effective one with an IC50 of approximately 100 nM. The measured IC50 value is at least 1 order of magnitude below those of other known THTT inhibitors. This finding was confirmed by T3 uptake in primary murine astrocytes expressing endogenous Mct8 but not in MCT10-overexpressing MDCK1-cells, indicating a remarkable specificity of the inhibitor toward MCT8. Because silymarin is a frequently used adjuvant therapeutic for hepatitis C infection and chronic liver disease, our observations raise questions regarding its safety with respect to unwanted effects on the TH axis

Like many seeds, it also contains linoleic acid, though I'm not sure of the g per weight.


The initial extract of crushed milk thistle seeds, usually with ethanol, that contains 65% to 80% silymarin and 20% to 35% fatty acids, such as linoleic acid.


Silymarin, which is extracted from the milk thistle (Silybum marianum), has been used for centuries for treating hepatic disorders and its hepatoprotective effects have been known for hundreds of years. Silymarin is a mixture of polyphenoic flavonoids, which include silibinin (silybin A and silybin B), isosilyin A and B, silychristin A and B, silydianin and other phenol compounds. The pharmacokinetics of silibinin shows fast absorption and elimination. Silymarin undergoes phase I and phase II metabolism, especially phase II conjugation reactions, it undergoes multiple conjugation reactions, and is primarily excreted into bile and urine. Silymarin has a good safety profile, but little is known regarding its potential for drug interaction. Silymarin has limited effect on the pharmacokinetics of several drugs in vivo; despite silymarin decreasing the activity of cytochrome P-450 (CYPs) enzymes, UDP-glucuronosyltransferase (UGT) enzyme, and reducing P-glycoprotein (P-gp) transport. Health-care practitioners should caution patients against co-administration of silymarin and pharmaceutical drugs.


Pectin have been shown to be an intestinal irritant in rats.


Lactic acid accumulation in the caecum and colon resulting from the fermentation of carbohydrates can lead to deleterious effects in ruminant and monogastric animals, including humans. In the present study, we examined the behavioural effects of two types of commonly consumed foods: soluble and fermentable carbohydrates (FCs). Thirty-six male Wistar rats were fed either a commercial rat and mouse chow, a soluble carbohydrate (SC)-based diet or an FC-based diet. Social interaction, anxiety, aggression and locomotor activity were examined by employing a social interaction test and a light/dark emergence test, while physical parameters of hindgut fermentation were examined after sacrifice, either 3 or 21 h after feeding. Results showed that anxiety (spending less time in the light compartment during the light/dark emergence test) and aggression (increased fighting during the social interaction test) were increased following raised concentrations of fermentation end products, such as lactic acid and volatile fatty acids (VFAs) in the caecum of rats. These associations occurred regardless of dopamine and 5-HT concentrations in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and provide evidence supporting a general effect of FCs on behaviour. Possible mechanisms of action along with similarities between a rat and human model of acidosis are discussed.

KJ said:

What's their usage for?

Pectin have been shown to be an intestinal irritant in rats.

Anxiety and aggression associated with the fermentation of carbohydrates in the hindgut of rats

Lactic acid accumulation in the caecum and colon resulting from the fermentation of carbohydrates can lead to deleterious effects in ruminant and mono…

www.sciencedirect.com

Lactic acid accumulation in the caecum and colon resulting from the fermentation of carbohydrates can lead to deleterious effects in ruminant and monogastric animals, including humans. In the present study, we examined the behavioural effects of two types of commonly consumed foods: soluble and fermentable carbohydrates (FCs). Thirty-six male Wistar rats were fed either a commercial rat and mouse chow, a soluble carbohydrate (SC)-based diet or an FC-based diet. Social interaction, anxiety, aggression and locomotor activity were examined by employing a social interaction test and a light/dark emergence test, while physical parameters of hindgut fermentation were examined after sacrifice, either 3 or 21 h after feeding. Results showed that anxiety (spending less time in the light compartment during the light/dark emergence test) and aggression (increased fighting during the social interaction test) were increased following raised concentrations of fermentation end products, such as lactic acid and volatile fatty acids (VFAs) in the caecum of rats. These associations occurred regardless of dopamine and 5-HT concentrations in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and provide evidence supporting a general effect of FCs on behaviour. Possible mechanisms of action along with similarities between a rat and human model of acidosis are discussed.

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Pectin can also promote diabetes in non-obese mice.


NOD mice fed semisynthetic diets free from FFs were largely protected from diabetes while semisynthetic diets supplemented with the FFs pectin and xylan (PX) resulted in higher diabetes incidence. Semisynthetic diet free from FFs altered GM composition significantly; addition of PX changed the composition of the GM towards that found in natural-diet-fed mice and increased production of FF-derived short-chain fatty acid metabolites in the colon. The highly diabetogenic natural diet was associated with expression of proinflammatory and stress-related genes in the colon, while the semisynthetic diet free from FFs promoted Il4, Il22, Tgfβ and Foxp3 transcripts in the colon and/or pancreatic lymph node. PX in the same diet counteracted these effects and promoted stress-related IL-18 activation in gut epithelial cells. 16S RNA sequencing revealed each diet to give rise to its particular GM composition, with different Firmicutes to Bacteroidetes ratios, and enrichment of mucin-degrading Ruminococcaceae following diabetes-protective FF-free diet.

@KJ Milk thistle is supposedly used to help the liver. I forgot what Apple Pectin was used for.

biohacker said:

@KJ Milk thistle is supposedly used to help the liver. I forgot what Apple Pectin was used for.

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I wouldn't take either, personally.

Just avoiding PUFA should be somewhat enough to maintain a healthy liver.

KJ said:

I wouldn't take either, personally.

Just avoiding PUFA should be somewhat enough to maintain a healthy liver.

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Well I was drinking a bunch of alcohol for a long time. I haven't drank in a few days though. But I wanna speed the healing process up.

biohacker said:

Well I was drinking a bunch of alcohol for a long time. I haven't drank in a few days though. But I wanna speed the healing process up.

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PUFA drives alcohol related liver dysfunction.

KJ said:

PUFA drives alcohol related liver dysfunction.

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I've been avoiding PUFAs a lot recently but I was still drinking.

biohacker said:

I've been avoiding PUFAs a lot recently but I was still drinking.

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Aspirin can probably help.

KJ said:

Aspirin can probably help.

https://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(19)30493-8/fulltext

Aspirin and the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma development in patients with alcoholic cirrhosis

Supplemental Digital Content is available in the textAspirin therapy has shown protective effects against hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) in preclinical studies. However, it is unclear whether aspirin therapy lowers the risk of HCC in patients with alcoholic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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It says it is unclear if it can help with alcoholic cirrhosis. I'm not sure if I'm at that stage but I may be close.

biohacker said:

It says it is unclear if it can help with alcoholic cirrhosis. I'm not sure if I'm at that stage but I may be close.

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‘the aspirin group showed a significantly lower risk of HCC’

Also, check these studies out.

KJ said:

‘the aspirin group showed a significantly lower risk of HCC’

Also, check these studies out.

Supplementation of saturated long-chain fatty acids maintains intestinal eubiosis and reduces ethanol-induced liver injury in mice - PubMed

In humans and mice, alcohol causes intestinal dysbiosis, reducing the capacity of the microbiome to synthesize saturated LCFA and the proportion of Lactobacillus species. Dietary approaches to restore levels of saturated fatty acids in the intestine might reduce ethanol-induced liver injury in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Decreased tumor necrosis factor-alpha and interleukin-1alpha production from intrahepatic mononuclear cells in chronic ethanol consumption and upregulation by endotoxin - PubMed

The relationship between the changes in liver pathology and the production of interleukin (IL)-1alpha, IL-6, and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) by intrahepatic mononuclear cells was studied in rats fed alcohol and subsequently exposed to lipopolysaccharide (LPS). Rats were fed 40%...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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give me the TL;DR

This says milk thistle is protective of the liver, but to only take 100-200 mg a few times a day.

biohacker said:

give me the TL;DR

Click to expand...

In humans and mice, alcohol causes intestinal dysbiosis, reducing the capacity of the microbiome to synthesize saturated LCFA and the proportion of Lactobacillus species. Dietary approaches to restore levels of saturated fatty acids in the intestine might reduce ethanol-induced liver injury in patients with alcoholic liver disease.

biohacker said:

Milk Thistle Liver Detox - Thomas DeLauer | Executive Body and Business Coach

Hey, it’s Thomas DeLauer. In this video I want to talk about the liver. I want to talk about it in a little bit of different light. You see, we talk about the liver all the time and how it pertains to protecting you from...

thomasdelauer.com

This says milk thistle is protective of the liver, but to only take 100-200 mg a few times a day.

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It’s beneficial mechanism of action is essentially the same as aspirin except aspirin has a longer track record and doesn’t inhibit thyroid hormone absorption.


Silibinin strengthens and stabilizes the cell membranes, inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins associated with the lipid peroxidation and promotes regeneration of liver through the stimulation of protein synthesis and effect on the production of new hepatocytes.